News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

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Norman
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1936 Post by Norman » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:48 pm

PeFe wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:34 pm
I read on the Melbourne Transit blog that the SA bus reforms would have increased the number of people living close to Go Zones from 500,000 to 700,000......how is that bad...

Also the bus numbering system would be much simpler and clearer......how is that bad.....

Yes there were cuts to services off the main roads, maybe too many cuts, but you don't throw the baby out with bath water....

https://melbourneontransit.blogspot.com ... -part.html
Having a more frequent bus is nice, but if it doesn't go where you want it to go, is it really a better service? It would have entrenched Adelaide's bus system as a city-centric system rather that keeping some of the important cross-town services that people rely on.

Yes, some of the reforms would have been useful, but cutting things like the night network instead of expending it was a really bad idea. They should have consulted more and compromised on some of the ideas rather than just dumping the whole reform process.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1937 Post by PeFe » Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:50 pm

Norman wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:48 pm
PeFe wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:34 pm
I read on the Melbourne Transit blog that the SA bus reforms would have increased the number of people living close to Go Zones from 500,000 to 700,000......how is that bad...

Also the bus numbering system would be much simpler and clearer......how is that bad.....

Yes there were cuts to services off the main roads, maybe too many cuts, but you don't throw the baby out with bath water....

https://melbourneontransit.blogspot.com ... -part.html
Having a more frequent bus is nice, but if it doesn't go where you want it to go, is it really a better service? It would have entrenched Adelaide's bus system as a city-centric system rather that keeping some of the important cross-town services that people rely on.

Yes, some of the reforms would have been useful, but cutting things like the night network instead of expending it was a really bad idea. They should have consulted more and compromised on some of the ideas rather than just dumping the whole reform process.
What parts of Adelaide deserve a better cross suburban service? Adelaide is a low density "radial" city, not a "grid" city......
A quick trip into the CBD and out again may be the easiest cheapest solution to cross suburban travel.
None of the existing cross suburban routes are heavily patronised in my experience. If it wasn't for the schoolkids on the 300 who else would use that route?

The Go-Zones provide the backbone of the Adelaide bus network, I have no doubt that is where the majority of the patronage is.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1938 Post by SBD » Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:27 pm

PeFe wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:50 pm
Norman wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:48 pm
PeFe wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:34 pm
I read on the Melbourne Transit blog that the SA bus reforms would have increased the number of people living close to Go Zones from 500,000 to 700,000......how is that bad...

Also the bus numbering system would be much simpler and clearer......how is that bad.....

Yes there were cuts to services off the main roads, maybe too many cuts, but you don't throw the baby out with bath water....

https://melbourneontransit.blogspot.com ... -part.html
Having a more frequent bus is nice, but if it doesn't go where you want it to go, is it really a better service? It would have entrenched Adelaide's bus system as a city-centric system rather that keeping some of the important cross-town services that people rely on.

Yes, some of the reforms would have been useful, but cutting things like the night network instead of expending it was a really bad idea. They should have consulted more and compromised on some of the ideas rather than just dumping the whole reform process.
What parts of Adelaide deserve a better cross suburban service? Adelaide is a low density "radial" city, not a "grid" city......
A quick trip into the CBD and out again may be the easiest cheapest solution to cross suburban travel.
None of the existing cross suburban routes are heavily patronised in my experience. If it wasn't for the schoolkids on the 300 who else would use that route?

The Go-Zones provide the backbone of the Adelaide bus network, I have no doubt that is where the majority of the patronage is.
I don't recall if the outer northern suburb services changed much under the plans, but to address what cross-suburban services are missing - there are no east-west services that cross both Main North Road and the Gawler railway line north of the Little Para river (and probably north of Gepps Cross, but I haven't checked).

Someone who wants to travel from eastern Munno Para/Blakeview/Craigmore/Elizabeth Downs has to change buses at the Munno Para Shopping City or Smithfield railway station to get to western Munno Para/Munno Para West/Smithfield Plains/Andrews Farm/Davoren Park. I don't know if the shops/restaurants/schools/churches count as significant employers, so maybe it would only be a few friends visiting each other that would use those services if they existed.

There are few buses at all to employment precincts like Edinburgh North, Edinburgh, Penfield, Virginia.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1939 Post by Nort » Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:45 pm

SBD wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:27 pm
Someone who wants to travel from eastern Munno Para/Blakeview/Craigmore/Elizabeth Downs has to change buses at the Munno Para Shopping City or Smithfield railway station to get to western Munno Para/Munno Para West/Smithfield Plains/Andrews Farm/Davoren Park.
Two things spring to mind here:

1. These people who are living in the suburbs of Adelaide absolutely should have access to good public transport.

2. Examples like this show how increasing urban sprawl, even if necessary, has large costs that should be accounted for when new developments are being proposed.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1940 Post by SBD » Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:13 pm

Nort wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:45 pm
SBD wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:27 pm
Someone who wants to travel from eastern Munno Para/Blakeview/Craigmore/Elizabeth Downs has to change buses at the Munno Para Shopping City or Smithfield railway station to get to western Munno Para/Munno Para West/Smithfield Plains/Andrews Farm/Davoren Park.
Two things spring to mind here:

1. These people who are living in the suburbs of Adelaide absolutely should have access to good public transport.

2. Examples like this show how increasing urban sprawl, even if necessary, has large costs that should be accounted for when new developments are being proposed.
The residential suburbs have bus services that link to the railway stations. That's fine for the model where everyone wants to come and go to the city. It doesn't help as much of you want to go east/west across that boundary, since you still have to change vehicle at the railway station.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1941 Post by Nort » Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:27 am

SBD wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:13 pm
Nort wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:45 pm
SBD wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:27 pm
Someone who wants to travel from eastern Munno Para/Blakeview/Craigmore/Elizabeth Downs has to change buses at the Munno Para Shopping City or Smithfield railway station to get to western Munno Para/Munno Para West/Smithfield Plains/Andrews Farm/Davoren Park.
Two things spring to mind here:

1. These people who are living in the suburbs of Adelaide absolutely should have access to good public transport.

2. Examples like this show how increasing urban sprawl, even if necessary, has large costs that should be accounted for when new developments are being proposed.
The residential suburbs have bus services that link to the railway stations. That's fine for the model where everyone wants to come and go to the city. It doesn't help as much of you want to go east/west across that boundary, since you still have to change vehicle at the railway station.
Yeah, exactly. And as the footprint of a city grows larger the difficulty of providing such services explodes.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1942 Post by ChillyPhilly » Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:33 am

Nort wrote:
SBD wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:13 pm
Nort wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:45 pm
Two things spring to mind here:

1. These people who are living in the suburbs of Adelaide absolutely should have access to good public transport.

2. Examples like this show how increasing urban sprawl, even if necessary, has large costs that should be accounted for when new developments are being proposed.
The residential suburbs have bus services that link to the railway stations. That's fine for the model where everyone wants to come and go to the city. It doesn't help as much of you want to go east/west across that boundary, since you still have to change vehicle at the railway station.
Yeah, exactly. And as the footprint of a city grows larger the difficulty of providing such services explodes.
To build on this, sprawl is never 'necessary'.

It's just accepted and perpetuated by multiple cultures: lazy planning and government that has never been proactive at curbing it, and car culture. Sprawl is very much in the interests of car and fuel corporations.

To be realistic, however, not everyone wants to live in apartment buildings or medium/higher density settings. But this in itself has changed in line with increases to this type of housing stock, and the benefits of higher density living.
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1943 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:42 pm

Norman wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:48 pm
PeFe wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:34 pm
I read on the Melbourne Transit blog that the SA bus reforms would have increased the number of people living close to Go Zones from 500,000 to 700,000......how is that bad...

Also the bus numbering system would be much simpler and clearer......how is that bad.....

Yes there were cuts to services off the main roads, maybe too many cuts, but you don't throw the baby out with bath water....

https://melbourneontransit.blogspot.com ... -part.html
Having a more frequent bus is nice, but if it doesn't go where you want it to go, is it really a better service? It would have entrenched Adelaide's bus system as a city-centric system rather that keeping some of the important cross-town services that people rely on.

Yes, some of the reforms would have been useful, but cutting things like the night network instead of expending it was a really bad idea. They should have consulted more and compromised on some of the ideas rather than just dumping the whole reform process.
The reform would still have buses covering the whole metropolitan area. The cuts were to bus stops that are close to one another and bus routes on parallel roads. I agree about the night routes though.

Here's another article that covered the outrage.
https://humantransit.org/2020/07/adelai ... fails.html

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1944 Post by PeFe » Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:32 pm

Public transport fares to rise.
Fare Changes 2021
When: Sunday 4 July 2021


From Sunday, 4 July 2021 new fares will apply for all Adelaide Metro bus, train and tram services:

As with previous years, bus, train and tram fares will increase in line with the Consumer Price Index (CPI).
All passengers can travel cheaper using metroCARD, with greater savings for regular passengers using a metroCARD 28-Day or 14-Day pass, as well as Regular, Concession, Student or Senior fares.

New fare prices
Fare Type Singletrip (Peak) Singletrip (Interpeak) Daytrip
Weekdays before 9.01am and after 3pm. All day Saturday. Weekdays between 9.01am and 3pm. All day Sunday and SA public holidays. Valid from first validation until 4.30am the following day.
Regular
metroCARD $3.95 $2.20 -
MetroTicket $5.80 $3.90 $11.00
Concession and tertiary student
metroCARD $1.95 $1.05 -
MetroTicket $2.90 $1.40 $5.50
Primary and secondary student
metroCARD $1.35 $1.05 -
MetroTicket $2.90 $1.40 $5.50
Seniors Card holders
South Australian Seniors Card $1.95 FREE -
South Australian Seniors Card holders travel free on all Adelaide Metro public transport services on Saturdays, Sundays and SA public holidays as well as most times during weekdays. A concession fare is required at the following times: Monday to Friday, 7.01am to 9.00am, 3.01pm to 7.00pm.
Interstate Seniors Card holders
By using a valid metroCARD and/or MetroTicket, Australian State and Territory Seniors Card holders can enjoy the same concession fares and free travel benefits on Adelaide Metro services as South Australian Seniors Card holders. To take advantage of free travel, interstate Seniors Card holders will need to collect a temporary MetroTicket which is valid for 14 days, from these locations.
Passengers with bikes
Bikes are not permitted on buses or trams, however can be carried free on trains Monday to Friday between 9.01am and 3pm or between 6pm and the last service and on Saturday, Sunday and public holidays when space is available. A peak concession fare ticket must be purchased for bikes at all other times.


metroCARD 28-Day Pass
Regular $105.00
Concession and tertiary student $52.50
Primary and secondary student $26.00
metroCARD 14-Day Pass
Regular $63.20
Concession and tertiary student $31.60
Primary and secondary student $15.80
3-Day Visitor Pass $25.50
MetroTickets are not available for purchase on board bus services as drivers do not carry cash. MetroTickets can be purchased from vending machines on all trains and trams and at many interchanges.

https://adelaidemetro.com.au/Announceme ... anges-2021

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Norman
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1945 Post by Norman » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:51 pm

Here's something interesting from the 2021/22 Budget
Commence rollout of new next generation ticket validators across trams and buses (including O-Bahn) that can read MetroCards, credit and debit cards, and bar codes to support a new ticketing system and finalise the business case for next generation public transport payments system.
So that means the new validators will be rolled out across the system over the next year or so.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1946 Post by ChillyPhilly » Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:13 pm

Norman wrote:Here's something interesting from the 2021/22 Budget
Commence rollout of new next generation ticket validators across trams and buses (including O-Bahn) that can read MetroCards, credit and debit cards, and bar codes to support a new ticketing system and finalise the business case for next generation public transport payments system.
So that means the new validators will be rolled out across the system over the next year or so.
Hopefully the benefits of the change are promoted.
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1947 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:55 am

Even with the fare rises, it's still cheap compared to other Australian cities. Good to hear about the new validators, can you pay using NFC on your phone?

This guy made a video about the fares in Adelaide. He has a good point about how the peak and interpeak fare times. Why it's peak on Saturday, but interpeak on Sunday is a mystery.


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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1948 Post by Bob » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:58 am

At the last election campaign I wrote to both Labor and Liberal parties questioning why Saturday is a peak Fare and would they consider moving it so all the WE & PH's could be off peak Fares.

Neither answered the question - one added me to their mailing list, the other didn't respond, so still a mystery to me as well why all day Saturday is special to have peak Fares all day.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

#1949 Post by Modbury_Man » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:54 pm

Bob wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:58 am
At the last election campaign I wrote to both Labor and Liberal parties questioning why Saturday is a peak Fare and would they consider moving it so all the WE & PH's could be off peak Fares.

Neither answered the question - one added me to their mailing list, the other didn't respond, so still a mystery to me as well why all day Saturday is special to have peak Fares all day.
The Weatherill Labor Government brought in this change in December 2013, together with other fare reforms, such as the 28 day metrocard pass and extended hours for Seniors to travel free - refer here - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-07/ ... -m/5002702

Essentially it was to try and encourage greater use of Sunday public transport services, which traditionally had always had lower patronage than Saturday - this was especially so given that Saturday and Sunday timetables used to often be separate - now on many routes Saturday and Sunday timetables are combined.

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